4P1L / 4П1Л Siberian Gen4 in Screen mode

Some time ago, I did some initial experiments with the 4P1L (4П1Л) with the screen performing as anode instead. Some DIYers claim the improved sound of the mesh type anodes. Kees Brakenhoff kindly sent me some PL519 to test in screen mode. He has done multiple builds with this mode of operation with great results. Unfortunately I’ve not had the chance yet to build such an amp.

What I could do instead though, was to mod very quickly my 4П1Л preamp to screen mode. It was a very easy and fast modification. I kept the same heating wiring and just adjusted the screen (anode) current down to 10mA: Continue reading “4P1L / 4П1Л Siberian Gen4 in Screen mode”

4P1L (4П1Л) Siberian Gen4 – DHT Preamplifier

The return of the Siberian

After trying out so many DHTs and pre-amplifiers, I decided to wire up my 4P1L preamplifier Gen3 and fit the gyrator board to drive my 4P1L PSE Amplifier.

I have a pair of 4P1L/4П1Л dated 1968 which are properly burnt in. I’ve used them lately in my previous preamp incarnation with great results.

The circuit doesn’t need explanation, I think I’ve covered this repeatedly for a long time. I will only point out the differences:

The main change was fitting a pair of Russian wirewound 27Ω resistors in parallel to get closer to the 15Ω used in this position. I found these Russian wirewound resistors to sound extremely well as filament bias resistors. I tend to be skeptical about the “sound” of some components in circuits, however, they do make a big impact in the cathode of a filament bias arrangement.

The gyrator has my preferred combination: IXTP08N100D and BSH111BK. I have now an upgraded PCB Rev07 which fits the BSH111BK and similar FET and I will offer them shortly.

The latter benefits from the 30mA idle current. The result is lower output impedance whilst providing a great frequency response overall.

M3 needs a proper heatsink, it does get hot with about 2W of dissipation.

How does it perform?

Well, this valve has the reputation of amazing performance and low distortion. The gyrator setup provides the best out of this valve in my view. You can get a flat response as well as great bandwidht from 10Hz up to 3MHz loaded with 100kΩ:

The distortion is very low and is lower than 0.05% below 10Vrms. Dominant H2 with a lovely harmonic profile characteristic of this valve.

How does it sounds?

i’ve been listening and using this valve extensively since 2011. I have to say that it sounds amazing. I never get tired of its sounds. Before I listened to a 4P1L-4P1L system and found a slight edge on the sound (probably due to its H3 component) which I don’t hear on my system. The drive, clarity and tone is amazing. It can drive the 4P1L PSE perfectly well and you get a strong and clear bass. Very powerful. My +600 hours 4P1L are very quiet in this setup, no microphonic noise. I don’t have even dampers in the 4P1L sockets!

Anyway, if you need 19dB (x9) gain in your system or you need a driver for your SE amp, then this is the valve to go. I Still can be found cheaply and is a great contender to the thoriated tungsten filament DHTs like 01a and VT-25.

Build this one and enjoy!

Gyrator PCB board updated (Rev06)

After some further testing and prototyping, I’ve updated the gyrator board PCB to provide additional protection to the lower FET device with:

Protection Zener (D3) between drain and source (through-hole)
Back to back protection Zeners (D1 and D2) between gate and source to ensure positive gate bias for higher currents on jFETs and use of enhancement MOSFET

Layout was carefully adapted to ensure track separation due to HV in place. Result is that the new gyrator board provides all protection needed on the lower device and simplifies the build process

Here is an example of a completed board tested:

Gyrator PCB boards arrived!

Great pleasure this morning to receive the first batch of the gyrator PCB. After extensive testing we refined the layout and options for the PCB and now we have the final product ready for shipping! Unfortunately I will not be able to do some testing and shipping before end of February and I received a large number of requests already. I’m sure this batch will fly very quickly so please confirm your requests.

I will post soon the specifications and some circuit examples for this flexible gyrator board which can be used for DHT preamps (e.g. 4P1L, 01a, 26), amplifier drivers, A2 drivers, LTP drivers, parafeed output stages and more!

So check the For Sale section soon for more information.

Some days ago we discussed in DIYAudio using this board for a 2J27L preamp like this one:

The output FET follower is needed to for valves which have low current and high anode resistance which will struggle to drive large capacitances. The FET follower of your choice can be used instead.

A minimal circuit which sounds fantastic is the basic configuration of this PCB. With few changes this circuit can be used on many DHTs like 26, 4P1L, 10Y, 30, 30sp, 12, 71a, 45, 46, etc:

If you want to send me your requests please use ONLY the form below:

Gyrator bias discussion

A very interesting point was raised on the 4P1L DIYAudio thread around the gyrator circuit using CCS and whether a simple resistor divider was better than the CCS due to the LND150 temperature drift.

I’ve tried both options and I’d say I prefer the CCS despite the variation with temperature for the following reasons (which people may well disagree):

It’s true the LND150 varies a lot with temperature (see attached), however if it’s operated at low current (e.g.<500μA) the variation is small. In a cascoded pair for this circuit the drift in the output voltage is small. Simulated in Spice I get about 6.35mV/°C. The resistor divider will be better of course but you need a smaller values to reduce impact of dR/dT. This creates another problem which is the reduced PSR. With a compromise divider to balance idle current and PSR you can get 5 times less variation with temperature in the circuit under discussion – see below (e.g. 1.4mV/°C)
For a smaller value of resistor divider the PSR is impacted and significantly lower than the CCS. If you don’t have a well filtered supply, the PSR benefits of the gyrator will be reduced due to this. For example, I did some quick comparisons by simulating my 01a preamp. I used a 235KΩ/220KΩ and a 23K5Ω/22KΩ divider options with a typical film decoupling cap of 4.7μF.

The PSR of the CCS is above 100dB whilst the PSR of the resistor divider goes from 56dB (235KΩ/220KΩ divider) down to 37dB (23K5Ω/22KΩ divider).
In practice, I implemented two different circuits as I had a shunt regulator before when I had a resistor divider and now I don’t have any shunt regulator but I use the CCS version.

Looking at the output PSR as the gyrator provides additional rejection to noise. The resistor divider PSR is about 73dB and CCS is 30dB better anyway

The voltage variance is really small with temperature and this circuit in particular isn’t affected by such small drift in my view

DHT day

DHT in excess

We met yesterday at Andy Evan’s with our friend Tony for an interesting set of tests. Firstly we looked at measuring Andy’s 4P1L SE and PSE amplifiers:

4P1L SE LL1682: a great sounding amp overall which sounded as well as it measured. A must amplifier to listen to!
4P1L PSE (O’Netics OTs). This one particularly revealed an issue with the 4P1L driver configuration as it was running out of steam at about 2W before distortion creeped in. I think Andy will look into fixing this shortly. It also showed a slight dip above 10kHz up until 20kHz which may be attributed to the O’Netics.
4P1L PSE which I nicknamed the “Daemon” as it nearly screwed up my measurement gear due to some nasty grounding issues. We decided to give up on testing the response of this amp after this.

Andy’s speakers are Mark Audio Alpair 10s full range in some standing 23L cabinets. They do sound great with a solid bass and detailed treble. Perhaps a bit higher on the treble, but they are worth every penny.

We set the listening session to rotate the amps as well as the preamplifiers:

4P1L Siberian Gen 3
Andy’s 26 preamp, filament bias, LL1692 step down transformer and Rod Coleman regulators.
Tony’s 30sp with Rod Coleman regulators and depletion FET CCS loads
01a preamp Gen2

In my opinion, I think we can draw a conclusion to the 4P1L-4P1L-4P1L configuration. Perhaps it’s the H3 harmonic profile, but it doesn’t sound good – a bit harsh on the treble. The challenge in my view was that one 4P1L stage driver wasn’t sufficient to bring out to life in full Andy’s system. It forced the DAC to swing higher output levels and didn’t sound as good as with the preamps.

Don’t get me wrong here, all the preamps sounded great, however there were subtle differences which showed that 01a was superior in this setup. The 26 was also outstanding as expected, however the 30sp was slightly thin. The three agreed on the evaluation carried out and we concluded that 01a-4P1L-4P1L was a wining formula!

The 01a brought a level of clarity that it was superior. The piano, bass, snare drums, brass and voices we listen to in detail across various test tracks sounded with a level of detail and delicacy which was unique. This was a surprise to all, as we were expecting a system with 2 stages to be the superior combination. I wish the 4P1L could have a gain of 20! 🙂

Here are some few pictures of the messy DHTs spread around:

Andy’s HT supplies

4P1L Gen3 preamp, 01a Gen2 preamp, Tony’s 30sp preamp and Andy’s 26 preamp

Andy’s 4P1L SE Amp

What a mess on the floor!

First tests on the 01a, 4P1L preamps into Andy’s 4P1L SE Amp

wiring 01a, Slagle’s AVC and 4P1L Preamp into Andy’s 4P1L SE

Andy’s 4P1L PSE

Andy’s 4P1L PSE a.k.a “The daemon”

Thanks Andy for hosting a great day.

Here are Andy’s impressions posted in DIYAudio of our great experience testing the preamps and the 4P1L SE and PSE amplifiers:

“I had a very interesting day today with Ale Moglia and a friend of ours, Tony. We auditioned 4 line stages. Amp was a PSE 4P1L, with 4P1L input (plate choke and FT-3 coupling cap). Speakers were Mark Audio Alpair 10s. Full range, 23 litre infinite baffles. We placed them in this rank order:
1. Ale’s 01A
2. 26 into LL1692A stepdown
3. Ale’s 4P1L
4. 30sp

All DHTs and all sounded good – quite alike in having that DHT sound. I think they were all filament bias. Ale’s 4P1L line stage might have suffered from going into two more stages of 4P1L so may be better into a different amp. In that sense it may not be a definitive test, so the jury is out on that. We have known from past experiments that 3 4P1L stages in a row just don’t sound that good.

The 26 preamp was predictably nice, sweet and detailed. Audibly better than 30sp. Just a bit better in this context than Ale’s 4P1L but not far away.

The star without any doubt was Ale’s 01A preamp. It was just stunning. Quite magical. So if it’s a question of building a line stage, this to my ears supersedes the 4P1L. I never expected this – I’ve built 01A preamps in the past, but this is a very clever circuit. you can find it here:

01a Preamp (Gen2) | Bartola Valves

I do urge you to look seriously at this design. It’s a bit special. It was the only one of the 4 we auditioned that actually sounded better in the system than without it. There is enough gain with just the 2 4P1L stages in the amplifier, which I usually drive straight out of a ES9023 DAC. But adding this stage was a better sound. I never expect 3 stages to sound better than 2, but this did.”

(Andy Evans)

4P1L with screen as anode

A friend in DIYAudio came up with a great idea of using the 4P1L in a different way for a pre-amp/line stage. Given availability of IT and its gapped current, he suggested connecting the 4P1L differently. Instead of using the anode as the anode element, the screen is used as anode. The 4P1L screen has a maximum current of 10mA and dissipation should be within the 1.5W.

The 4P1L curves in this mode

Let’s look at an initial transfer curve with Uak=100V:

I wired the 4P1L in the following way to allow tracing with the uTracer:

The connection is slightly different as the one suggested by Indra. If you are looking to implement filament bias, you will have to rearrange the anode and suppressor grid connection and expect a slight shift on the curves given the change in bias. Filaments are in series here, however is preferred to wire them in parallel when using this valve in filament bias as a smaller filament resistor will be required given there is twice the filament current when filaments are connected in parallel. This will help to keep the output resistance lower as the size of this resistor is smaller (remember it is reflected multiplied by μ+1 times.

Continue reading “4P1L with screen as anode”

4P1L Siberian DHT Preamp (Gen3)

Recently I finished the filament supply for the latest incarnation of my 4P1L pre-amplifier. Here is the next instalment of this project. The HT power supply was refined after builiding more than 7 stacked HT supplies for the 814 SE Amplifier.

The supply design is very simple. Perhaps the selection of components and the refinement of some aspects of it is what makes the difference to me: Continue reading “4P1L Siberian DHT Preamp (Gen3)”

4P1L Siberian Gen3: Loctal socket board

Here is the 4P1L Siberian DHT preamp (Gen3) socket board. I’m using a pair of custom made teflon sockets mounted on a PCB sandwich with a 4mm silicon rubber sheet. The lower board is mounted over 4 silent blocks:

drilling the socket boards

Loctal sockets fit and silentblocks

finished socket board

4P1Ls

4P1Ls ready!

This should be a great improvement to reduce any further microphonic noise in the preamp!

Siberian DHT Preamp Gen3: filament supply

Time to upgrade my pre-amplifier (again) and is perfect timing to go back to 4P1L. The Siberian preamp had a fantastic bass response and detail.

Here is the new filament raw supply. It has split bobbin transformers, schottky rectifier bridge and input choke LC filter stage. It also has a CM choke and EPCOS electrolytic capacitors:

Power supply ready

Input chokes

Chokes and capacitor bank

Schottky Rectifier Bridge plus snubber

Building the power supply

Dead quiet at 16V output and 550mA which is the load used by 4P1L starved filaments in parallel with filament bias.

Soon to build the preamp!